KINGDOM OF LESOTHO
NINTH PARLIAMENT
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Daily Hansard
(Official Report)
FOURTH MEETING
FIRST SESSION
Thursday
17th November, 2016
(Unrevised)
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Thursday, 17th November, 2016
The House assembled at 2.30 p.m.
(RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair)
PRAYER
The Chaplain led the House in Prayer
COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR
Litho tse Khabane, ke kopa bohle ho ela hloko hore ho latela tloaelo le tsamaiso, (practice and procedure of parliament), ha Mokolo oa Motsamaisi oa Lipuisano o kena ka Lekhotleng ho lokela ho khutsa tuu! Ha ke na pelaelo tabeng ena ka ha e ntse e phethahatsoa hantle.
Ka mokhoa o ts’oanang, ha Mokoloko o tsoa ka mona ka Lekhotleng le teng Ntlo e lokela ho khutsa tuu ho fihlela motho oa ho qetela mokolokong a tsoile.Taba ena e tlama bohle, ho kenyelletsa le ‘na. Ke ka hoo ke sitoang ho araba le haeba ke hobosoa joalokaha ho etsahetse ka Labobeli.
Bahlomphehi ba ka ,taba ena ea ho khutsa ka sebopeho sena kamoo ke seng ke hlalositse, ha e etsetsoe ho hlompha ‘na ke le motho, empa e etsetsoa ho hlompha Ntlo ena e Khabane. Ho hlompha Ntlo ena ke ho hlompha Sechaba sa Basotho se re hlomphileng haholo ka ho re khethela boemong bo holimo-limo hakana, eleng sehlohlolong haholo sa puso ea Lesotho.
Haeba ha re bone kamoo re hlomphiloeng, Litho tse Khabane, hona joale, mohlomong re tla bona ha re se re tlohile mona. Ka liketso tsena tsa ho hlomphollana rea itlhompholla. Ha re hopoleng mantsoe a bohlale a reng: “those who tear the garment of honour wear a mask of shame.”
Ke hlokometse hape hore ke ne ke tsekisoa hore ha kea fana ka monyetla oa lintlha tsa tsamaiso. Ruri ke bona ke hloketsoe toka hobane ka lehlakore le leng ke kentsoe pressure ea hore ke etse qeto, (ruling) ka liketsahalo tsa Labohlano le fetileng. Empa le ha mosebetsi oa Ntlo o le sieo, bang ba lebelletse hore ke lule ka mona joale ke sebetse lintlha tsa tsamaiso. Taba ena ha e amohelehe ho hang, Litho tse Khabane. Ke rata ke hle ke khaleme ka matla baetsi ba ketso ena, haholo-holo Setho se Khabane sa Malimong.
Bahlomphehi, ha mosebetsi oa Ntlo o le sieo, mosebetsi oa sechaba o mongata haholo mafapheng a mang moo re filoeng boikarabelo teng, joaloka liofising le mabatooeng. Ha re o etseng ha monyetla o le teng, sechaba ha se kotule letho ha re sebetsa lintlha tsa tsamaiso.
RULING NO I
Honourable Members, you will recall that on Friday 11th November, 2016, the following members:
⦁ Hon. Monyane Moleleki
⦁ Hon. Ralechate ‘Mokose
⦁ Hon. Kotiti Diholo and
⦁ Hon. Mokhele Moletsane,
took turns on the floor of the House and raised with the Chair, their points of order wherein they declared that, henceforth they were going to change from their allocated seats, relocate and occupy seats elsewhere.
In their own words they said:
“HON. M. MOLELEKI:Mohlomphehi Motsamaisi oa Lipuisano, ke ile ka lula ha ho ntse ho etsoa li-point of order mona hobane ke ne ke lebeletse hore u tla etsa polelo e khuts’oanyane ea ho re bulela. Empa kaha ke bona hore re kene ho business ea letsatsi u sa re bulela, ke ne ke kopa ho u tlalehela, Mohlomphehi, u le Motsamaisi oa Lipuisano ka Ntlong ena e Khabane le Bahlomphehi Litho tse Khabane kaofela hore ha ke qeta ho bua mona ke ea moo ke il’o lula teng eleng mane. Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.”
“HON. R. ‘MOKOSE:Ka boikokobetso bohle le bohlanka, ‘M’e le ‘na ke beha ka pele ho uena, ‘M’e, hore ka lebaka la liphetoho tse etsahetseng ke kopa ho u tsebisa, hore kamorao hore ke bue mona, ke kopa ho ea batla setulo mane.”
“HON. K. DIHOLO:Kea leboha, ‘M’e Motsamaisi oa Lipuisano, le ‘na ka ho mokhoa o ts’oanang ha ke ema tjena ke hlakisa hore le ‘na ke se ke fetela lehlakoreng lane kamorao ho liketsahalo.”
“HON. M. MOLETSANE:Ka ‘nete kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, kaho mpha monyetla. Ke ne ke re ke ema tjena, Mohlomphehi Motsamaisi oa Lipuisano hore ke mpa ke u tsebise hore ka boikokobetso ke se ke fetola setulo sena ke ea mose mane.”
In response to this development, on Monday 14th November, 2016, the Speaker made a communication from the Chair and stated as follows:
“Litho tse Khabane, ka Labohlano le fetileng la la 11 Pulungoana ka mona ka Lekhotleng ho etsahetse taba eo ho neng ho se bonolo ho e utloisisa ka nako eno eo e neng e etsahala ka eona, eleng ea Matona a Khabane ha a tloha moo a neng a ntse a lula teng ‘me a ea moo a iphatlalalitseng a se a il’o lula teng. Taba ena e qalile ho ba le moelelo hamorao, hona letsatsing leo ha ho hlahella hore Matona ano a itokollotse Lekhotleng la Matona (Cabinet), eleng hore tatellano (sequence) eo lintho li etsahalang ka eona ke ntho ea bohlokoa.
Ka sa imamella litaba tsena tse etsahetseng ‘me ke tla etsa qeto (Ruling). Ke mpa feela ke kopa bohle ho ba hlokolosi mabapi le liqeto tseo ba li nkang ka mona ka Ntlong.”
Taba e ‘ngoe ke hore hona ka Labohlano, Ofisi ea Motsamaisi oa Lipuisano e fumane lengolo ho tsoa ho Mohlomphehi Ralechate ‘Mokose, ‘me ke sa ithuta lona.”
Honourable Members, it is common cause that in nearly all the Commonwealth Parliaments, the governing party or coalition occupy seats to the right of the Chair, with the President or the Prime Minister allocated a seat right in front. And by convention Ministers also sit on the front benches.
Private Members, otherwise known as back benchers, representing the governing parties or parties in the coalition are customarily seated according to their seniority or length of service in the House.
Members who represent parties in the opposition to the government are usually seated to the left of the Chair. The Leader of the Official Opposition is seated immediately opposite the President or the Prime Minister and is flanked by Members of his party. Other members sit according to their seniority in remaining seats. The second-rank opposition party gets the first choice of seats after the Official Opposition, the third-rank party the next choice and so on.
Now is a Minister resigns his or her Cabinet position, he or she willingly or unwillingly has to vacate his or her front bench seat in Parliament which is exactly what the Honourable Ministers and Deputy Ministers did immediately after notifying the Speaker on Friday last week, albeit doing it prematurely, i.e. prior to the announcement of their resignation. They then relocated and occupied seats next to their back-bencher colleagues in the Ruling Coalition.
Hon. Members, I have deliberately and diligently applied my mind on this matter, undertaken a rigorous and thorough research thereon, consulted widely with authorities on matters of Parliamentary Practice and Procedure. And on the basis of the abovementioned narration of events, the action by the Honourable Members, by their conduct and declaration, and for all intents and purposes, they have joined the ranks of Honourable back-benchers. Therefore, I have come to a conclusion that, this development is of no consequence.
Another issue is of a letter that I reported to have received. Following a careful scrutiny of the contents thereof, it is my considered opinion and a strong conviction that this letter has to be presented to the Democratic Congress (DC) Parliamentary Structure namely the Democratic Congress Party Caucus due to the nature of the Coalition Agreement entered into between the seven (7) Political Parties.
I SO RULE. [Applauds]
Point of order, Hon. Member for Butha-Buthe.
HON. M. MALIEHE (Butha-Buthe): Point of order eo ke emang ka eona ke hore ka boikokobetso bohle ke amohele ka liatla tse peli ntlha ea hau ea pele eo u qalileng ka eona. Ke ne ke lakalitse hore ke eme ka point of order, ho latela ka mokhoa oo le ’na ke e boneng kateng maobane. Taba e kholo eo ke ratang hore e re hlakele, re le Ntlo ena Khabane ke hore na, ha u lutse mono ka tlhompho eohle, joale re ema ka li-point of order, u utloisisa li se na moelelo kapa li na le moelelo ’me re lebeletse hore o re supise hore taba eo Setho se Khabane sa Butha-Buthe se e bolelang ha e na moelelo ka mabaka ana, ena e loketse ho ba tjena. Ere ha re ntse re ema ka li-point of order, re hloka clarification ea tsamaiso kapa ha re supa tsamaiso ebe Deputy Speaker o etsa walk out ha a ntse a re araba feela re ntse re ema. Taba ee ha e tlise anarchy ka hara Ntlo ee e Khabane? Hoo joale Litho tse Khabane li qetelletseng li entse ketso e nts’oabisitseng le ’na maobane ea hore ha a tloha a tsamaea Deputy Speaker ebe ho sala ho le lerata hobane joale Litho tse Khabane li ne li sa khotsofatsoa ke tsela eo a ileng a ts’oara litaba tsa eona. Na taba ee ha e rute ntsi hore batho baa ke Bahlomphehi, ke batho ba baholo, bao ha ba bua lintho ebe ba batla hore ba ts’eetse tsamaiso kapa ba rutehe ho feta ka mokhoa oo ba ka etsang. Haholo hobane Litho tse Khabane ka mono boholo ba tsona ke batho ba bacha Paramenteng. Ebe taba ee eona e bakoa ke eng hore ebe Deputy Speaker o tla ema a tsoe Litho tse Khabane li ntse li etsa point of order? [Liatla]
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Che, Setho se Khabane leha ke sa tsebe hantle hobane e ne e se ’na ea ka Lekhotleng maobane. Ruri ’na boipiletso ba ka ,Litho tse Khabane ho lona, ke hore ha re se ke ra etsang abuse our privilege ea hore re ka fuoa sebaka ha re bonts’itse hore ho na le seo re batlang ho se bua. Eaba joale re qetella ruri re nka nako e ngata haholo ea mesebetsi e meng ea bohlokoa ea sechaba re sebetsa lintlha tsa tsamaiso.
HON. J. MOLAPO (PR): Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Motsamaisi oa Lipuisano. Madam Speaker, I would like to agree with you wholeheartedly hore the misconduct of the Honourable Members at the time of your departure from the House is unbecoming behavior. We have to respect ourselves as the Members of the Honourable House irrespective of our personal dissatisfaction. You are completely correct in stating that there is a level of behavior that we should adhere to at all times.
Madam Speaker, I note with all the greatest respect the ruling that you have just placed before the House. I wish to humbly request the Honourable Speaker to maybe elaborate on the ruling. As in my personal judgment or in my personal understanding of what you have said, there are a number of issues in the ruling,Madam Speaker ,that are contradictory and which we have a great deal of difficulty in understanding.
The first amongst them Madam Speaker….
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! Setho se Khabane ke u eletsa hore u tle u batle copy ea Ruling ena eo ke e entseng, and go and study it carefully pele u ka ba le maikutlo ana ao ke bonang eka u na le ona ka eona. Kea makala hobane uena le har’a Litho tsohle tse Khabane ke ne ke sa lebella hore u ka ba le bothata ka tsela efe kapa efe ho utloisisa qeto ena. Empa ke kopa hore u ilo batla copy u e bale hantle u imamelle eona mohlomong u tla hlahisa maikutlo a hau. Empa le teng u tlo hlokomele hore haeba u na le maikutlo u lokela hore u tle u a behe ka tsela ea tsamaiso.
HON. J. MOLAPO: Madam Speaker, humbly I am of the view that your understanding and my understanding of this little dialogue between the two of us really now is diversifying more and more. Madam Speaker, I am simply asking you to explain …I think I understood what you are saying kappa, Madam Speaker, kannete ke utloisitse hore na u ne u reng. Ke hore taba ea Sekhooa eona hase eona eo eleng bothata. Bothata ke taba ea hore lintlha tseo u li buileng …
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Point of order, on a point of order, Hon. Member for Makhaleng.
HON. M. S. LEHATA (Makhaleng): Madam Speaker, ke ne ke re kannete u lekile ho thusa Setho se Khabane Ntate Joang Molapo. Ho latela Standing Order No. 49 (Decision of Chair Final) ha a tlameha hore ebe o ntse a botsa lipotso tseno tseo a ntseng a li botsa. Kea leboha, he is out of order ho latela Standing Order No. 49.
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: I accept your point of order, Setho se Khabane sa Makhaleng. Hantle seo u mpang u se etsa ke hore feela ha ’na ke ne ke itse ho latela tsamaiso uena u mpa u supa ka kotloloho hore na ke Standing Order No. 49. Kea leboha Setho se Khabane. Point of order Hon. Member for Thupa-Kubu.
HON. A. MAKAKANE (Thupa-Kubu): Kea leboha, Madam Speaker, if I may,ke kopa ho hlakisetsoa. It is a common cause that every week on Thursday ho na le lipotso ka Ntlong ena e Khabane tseo Litho tse Khabane li li botsang ebe li fumana likarabelo. Esale ho etsahala ketsahalo ea hore ebe Matona a ka bang mahlano a itokolla ts’ebetsong a fetela mane moo a lutseng teng, ketsahalo eno e shebahala e se e sa etsahale ’me re na le lipotso tseo esale li …
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Setho se Khabane ha kea utloisisa, u re esale Matona a etsa joang?
HON. A. MAKAKANE: Esale re bula Paramente ka mor’a ho phomola hape matona a itokolla re na le lipotso tseo esale li etsa pending tseo re neng re lebelletse hore kajeno joalokaha e le Labone, ebe li ea botsoa, ’me re fumana likarabelo. Joale re bona ho sa etsahale joalo, na ekaba ke hobane ho bile le ketsahalo ee ea ho itokolla ha Matona kapa che? Haeba ho joalo na ebe…
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Setho se Khabane ke Labone la pele lena Matona a itokollotse. Ha ke utloe hore na taba ena u e amahanya le boitokollo ba Matona joang. Ntle le haeba mohlomong u re u ne u e botsitse Letona le Khabane le itseng joale u tsietsing ea hore na ha a se a itokollotse ebe e tla arajoa ke mang.
HON. A. MAKAKANE: Madam Speaker…
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Setho se Khabane aku re ke arabe taba ena kannete. Ho neng ho ile ha etsahala ke hore Labone la pele kamorao hore re bule ke ne ke kope hore ho nts’oe notice ho hopotsoe beng ba lipotso lipotso tsa bona, ho fuoe le Matona a Khabane monyetla oa ho hlophisa likarabo. Ehlile kajeno hee teng lipotso li ne li ts’oanetse hore ebe li teng mona joale karabo eo ke e fumanang ha e nkhotsofatse.
HON. J. MOLAPO: Kea leboha Madam Speaker, I note that for the last 3 days we have been engaged in primarily more than a prayer in this House. Madam Speaker, there is business that has been put before the Business Committee. We requested as the Opposition through the Honourable Member for Butha-Buthe that he meets with the Deputy Prime Minister and the Leader of the House to find out when that business will be put before the Business Committee, so that business can be brought before this House. The Deputy Prime Minister is present in the House, but there is no business. There is business waiting for us outside and I think, Madam Speaker, it is only incumbent on the Deputy Prime Minister to convene the Business Committee so that, that business can come before this House and the House can at least proceed with the matter that is considered to be of the importance both to the House and to the nation at large.
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Mohlomphehi, Leader of the House a bitse Business Committee e tlo sheba business efeng?
HON. J. MOLAPO: I personally, Madam Speaker, submitted the motion requesting this House indicating its dissatisfaction or its confidence in the Deputy Speaker of the House. And I believe that the Deputy Speaker is an important Presiding Member of this House. It is a matter on which at least the mover of that motion and the seconder consider to be a matter of importance.
RT. HON. MADAM SPEAKER: Setho se Khabane, ruri ha hona moo Moetapele oa Ntlo a kenang tabeng ena. Tlhahiso e tafoleng ea ka hantle ke ne ke entse qeto ea hore ke tlo u kopa hore u ko tle re tlo sheba business eo u buang ka eona ’me ke se ke nka monyetla ona ho etsa joalo hore ha ke tsoa mona hona joale tjena u nts’ale morao.
Honourable Members, there being no business on the Order Paper, I now adjourned the House until tomorrow morning at 9.00 o’clock.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business upon the Order Paper, Rt. Hon. Madam Speaker adjourned the House without question put pursuant to the Standing Order No. 16 (2)
The House accordingly adjourned at 3.00 p. m.